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i am upset because one of the few Christians I really admire & respect just left xiangoth.net. see my friend used to post on another "christian goth" site called Enclave and that's where we met. Both of us felt unwelcome there because we were a small minority of people who weren't spiritually conservative, and certain other members constantly used us to display their deep-rooted religious hatre and intolerance. . Eventually he left because he couldn't carry on a peaceful discussion with anyone without others accusing him of being lukewarm or misleading others.. which he clearly was not doing unlesss you think that believing in love and grace is ungodly.
So i created xiangoth.net a couple years ago so people like he and I could have a SAFE place to discuss our spirituality. Some who posted on Enclave followed him to XGN and continued their right-wing conservative antics, but eventually they left becuase they didn't have an approving audience.
but some remained and have conitnued picking and picking and inciting becuase they feel its their right to tell us how fucked up we are and to show us our path is a highway to hell.
maybe i should have banned those who conitnued picking.. but then am I doing the same thing they are in reverse? i didn't. i liet them stay *hoping* they'd get a clue and realize there are a dozen other "christian goth" forums online filled with people just like them. and none friendly to people like me.
and that's what I hate about christians.. they'd rather push someone over the edge than show others God's love and grace. they have a fucking point to prove and god dammnit they're gonna prove it no matter the cost. oh it burns me up!
how many people have committed suicide due to religious assholes like which can be found at godscare.net or godhatesfags.com? how many others RAN away from anything christian becuase all they know of christ is what fuckwits like pat robertson have to say. forgive me God but I wish they'd all fucking die. Your world would be a much better place.
So i created xiangoth.net a couple years ago so people like he and I could have a SAFE place to discuss our spirituality. Some who posted on Enclave followed him to XGN and continued their right-wing conservative antics, but eventually they left becuase they didn't have an approving audience.
but some remained and have conitnued picking and picking and inciting becuase they feel its their right to tell us how fucked up we are and to show us our path is a highway to hell.
maybe i should have banned those who conitnued picking.. but then am I doing the same thing they are in reverse? i didn't. i liet them stay *hoping* they'd get a clue and realize there are a dozen other "christian goth" forums online filled with people just like them. and none friendly to people like me.
and that's what I hate about christians.. they'd rather push someone over the edge than show others God's love and grace. they have a fucking point to prove and god dammnit they're gonna prove it no matter the cost. oh it burns me up!
how many people have committed suicide due to religious assholes like which can be found at godscare.net or godhatesfags.com? how many others RAN away from anything christian becuase all they know of christ is what fuckwits like pat robertson have to say. forgive me God but I wish they'd all fucking die. Your world would be a much better place.
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no subject
Date: 2004-01-20 06:25 am (UTC)From:later, Bill
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Date: 2004-01-20 02:20 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2004-01-20 02:55 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2004-01-21 04:43 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2004-01-20 11:08 pm (UTC)From:I'm sorry about leaving XGN, but I felt that it was something I needed to do. Each successive wave of conservatives spewing the same garbage and expressing the same hypocritical, two-faced set of rhetorical rules takes a little something out of me, and finally it just took too much.
Interestingly, a lot of what I had written but deleted is more or less along the lines of what you said here. I was practically begging Night Hawk and DreamsinFire to just leave us alone or to look at us as actual human beings who are struggling along in our faith, and to try to exhibit some sense of fairness and decency by treating our views as legitimate and worthy of legitimate discussion. I deleted it, though, because I had already done that, and if pleading with them once wasn't going to affect any change, then I didn't think doing it a second time would... I know all too well not to anticipate any sort of humaneness from conservatives. As you said, they have a point to make, and damnit if they're not going to "prove" it no matter the cost.
Towards the end there, I really tried to reinvest emotionally, spiritually and socially in XGN, but ultimately with those guys there it just wasn't a constructive environment. Because every wave of conservatives is as stupid and ignorant as the last, it ended up being a neverending circle of the same debates and same rhetoric, and the same utter dismissals of my faith and basic humanity.
I need an environment that helps me to grow and develop as a person and as a Christian, deepening my faith and compelling me to put it into action. I wasn't finding that in these constant uphill battles where no matter what I said, no matter how good my arguments, no matter how much I pulled from Scripture to prove myself, I was never taken seriously enough for them to even bother legitimately contradicting me. And yeah, I had submitted my recommendations for how we could avoid that sort of environment, but they weren't implemented; as we know from experience, when conservatives aren't spanked and sent to their room, they corrupt and pollute everything God intended for good.
If they go, I'd be happy to come back, and I'd be happy to stay if we got serious on immunizing against the virus of conservativism. But with them there, always at the ready to cut us down for no reason than their own say so, not even respecting us enough to bother really debating us, I just can't. A man lives by believing in something, not by debating about many things.
I still love you and Derek and Bill and GutterGlitter though, and look forward to continuing our friendship at least on LJ.
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Date: 2004-01-21 02:24 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2004-01-21 04:37 am (UTC)From:What would happen next, of course, is that all the fundies would cry and moan about not being heard. Of course, they wouldn't really have much of an outlet for it since there posting privileges in "S&T" would be nil. Then, maybe then, they will give us up for being "lukewarm" and leave.
I think that part of the problem is that while the mods have strong liberal Christian leanings, it's not prevalent due to being overwhelmed in the forums. Rather than restrict certain people from posting, make posting privileges in that forum available only for mods.
Did any of that make coherent sense? I'm kind of tired.
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Date: 2004-01-21 04:41 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2004-01-23 02:14 am (UTC)From:I will not archive the conservative board. Whats posted there will be autopruned in seven days of no reply. I will also monitor that room. I don't mind conservative views being discussed but immature attacks on anyone or any lifestyle results in the entire thread being deleted without question.
ok.. its not the exact same as banning fundys but I think I found a way to keep them out of our hair.
no subject
Date: 2004-01-22 01:59 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2004-01-22 02:25 am (UTC)From:okay so do most of those people know too? yearone seems like she does but are the others playing alongtoo? oh the draammaaaa!!! lol.
bye.
no subject
Date: 2004-01-22 02:54 am (UTC)From:*sigh*
Date: 2004-01-22 09:41 pm (UTC)From:Thanks so much for maintaining that forum. I know from Revolution's experience and others that running a site like that exposes you to a lot of flak from all sides. Even tho i haven't been nearly as active there as i'd like, i want you to know your efforts are appreciated.
no subject
Date: 2004-01-23 04:16 pm (UTC)From:Perhaps those types could be called "Paulists"? Paul was very homophobic and hated himself. Sounds a bit fitting. My knowledge of the bible is sketchy so don't mind me.
-V-
.. gothic heathen :)
no subject
Date: 2004-01-24 12:09 am (UTC)From:Re:
Date: 2004-02-04 04:30 pm (UTC)From:Grace.. interesting.. So that means Christians don't need to follow all the Kosher laws?
The "Love is the law, love under will" quote is not by LaVey or Satanists, but by Aleister Crowley. The folks that follow his works are called Thelemites (http://www.religioustolerance.org/thelema.htm). They're basically Ceremonial Magicians.
I must admit, I don't know much about Thelema. I do know that LaVeyan Satanists are basically just hedonists for the most part. I once discussed this with a Satanist online.. basically asked him, "Why don't you just call yourself a hedonist and dispense with the Judaeo-Christian imagery, if you don't really have much to do with that pantheon/belief structure?" He didn't really have a good answer to that.
::shrugs::
Re:
Date: 2004-02-05 01:28 am (UTC)From:That is my understanding of Grace. According to Christian tradition, before Christ's death mankind was supposed to follow Old Covenant law to the T (old covenant = old testament) and provide sacrifices & burnt offerings to atone for their wrongdoings. Again according to Christian tradition, Christ died so that mankind no longer needed to follow the Law, however we were instructed to love each other as we do ourselves, especially our enemies. I don't think grace is a blank check to do anything and everything that makes us feel good, becuase some things carry consequences. What's confusing to many followers is that what may be ok for me will cause problems with another person.. say drinking for instance. That's why I like to emphasize the 'personal relationship with God' bit so much becuase to me that's where we find truth -- not in the words of fundamentalists or mainstream church who often think that christianity means we have to follow old covenant law & conform to standards set forth by the chuch, which i think is bullshit.
thanks for sharing your knowledge about Thelemites (and what you've experienced with LaVeyan Satanists, which i'd also heard too).
Re:
Date: 2004-02-14 05:58 pm (UTC)From:I feel all my actions carry consequences, so I choose my actions and decisions carefully, and if the shit does hit the fan, I bear the brunt. In Asatru, which is basically a reconstruction of a religious and spiritual oral tradition from 1000 years back before Scandinavia converted to Christianity, there are some things that are not appropriate today and there are some things that still are. In the Poetic Edda, there's some excellent advice from Odin (here's an example):
"The miserable man and evil minded
makes of all things mockery,
and knows not that which he best should know,
that he is not free from faults."
There are other maxims, some really showing what times were back then (like never keep your weapons further than your reach.. times were tough then.)
I see good truths to all religions, and granted, every religion has its wingnuts. You guys have the Fundementalists, we have the "folkish" idiots. (Long story..)